(no subject)

[serafina20]

Normally, I can vaguely understand where all the anger at Clark is coming from, but today, I just don't see it. Because what Lex was doing sleeping around? Not healthy. Once or twice, fine. Dating someone for a few weeks/months and sleeping with them? No problem. Going out, hooking up with a girl, fucking them once or twice, then cutting all ties and hating what you're doing? Not. Healthy.

And, that's the thing. Lex knew what he was doing was unhealthy. He wasn't enjoying it. He wasn't happy. But he couldn't stop because he's so disassociated from himself and disconnected, that he's doing anything he can to feel. Is Clark partially to blame? Okay, I'll give that. He hasn't been a stellar friend by any means. And I'm still incredibly pissed at Jonathan for saying that thing about Lex hurting people--which he wasn't doing (at least not intentionally)--when Jonathan has done nothing *but* hurt Lex from the very beginning.

So, yes, I think what Clark said to Lex needed to be said. He was hurt and confused and angry on a lot of different levels. Plus, he's not experienced with this kind of pain. Once Lex said the thing about wondering why he goes on and being happy that the fire wasc coming to him, his demeanor softens. He becomes less accusatory, less *angry*, but he still doesn't back down from his position: he hates that Lex is lying to him about particpating in self-injurous behaviors. And Lex needs to know that, and he feels safe enough with Clark (for some reason, re not the best friend ever) to ask him not to give up on him (yet, which I found interesting that Lex gave him an out). It's an unspoken promise. Lex indicates he'll try to change his behavior (and when he walked in, he wasn't there yet; he told Clark that he didn't know how much longer he was going to keep on like that) and then, if he doesn't, Clark can give up on him (and i know a good friend wouldn't, but Lex knows that everyone has their limits).

The most frustrating thing is that Clark's always going to miss out on what's going on because I don't think he can understand the kind of trauma and brain-injury Lex has recieved. I remember when Asylum aired, somoene said that they'd known a person who'd gone through electroshock therapy. Afterwards, they'd start crying just because they were so disconnected from the world around them (I think that was the story; I could be wrong). But, he's been through so much trauma and can't really reveal all of what's going on to anyone. Not even himself. He can't trust others (a lesson he's learned over and over) and, well, if he's already disconnected to himself, he's not really going to understand or be able to articulate everything that's going on.

But, he got as much out in the episode as he could, and I think he actually helped him to hear it from someone else. Sometimes, you need to hear from your friends how stupid you're being or depressed you are or how dangerous you behavior is for it to be real.

Comments

[mecurtin.livejournal.com]

I would agree, if Clark had said anything whatsoever like, "you don't have to do this, Lex, you're better than this, you don't have to feel disconnected and unloved." Because I didn't actually hear him say anything except, "you have to behave better or I won't love you." Which is not so much with the helpful.

[serafina20.livejournal.com]

"you have to behave better or I won't love you."

But he said that *before* Lex started telling him how disconnected he was, and how he wasn't in control of himself, and that he didn't like what he was doing. After he got that part of the message, he backed off. But in the beginning of the scene, he was coming from more of a place that Lex is responsible for his actions and he was choosing to do something that Clark didn't condone. And, yes, I think Clark has a right to say that if Lex keeps acting that way, they can't be friends anymore. Because it's not healthy for Clark to be in a relationship with somone he constantly has to worry about and who won't change for the better.

I think that Clark's attitude completely changed once he realized that Lex wasn't really in control of himself, he was just trying to do anything he could to feel. And, honestly, Clark can't do much to help Lex there except not give up on him and support him. And I think Clark made up his mind to do his best to do that, provided lex puts in the effort he needs to.

I also think this is a fairly good explanation of that scene as well.

now I need a transcript

[mecurtin.livejournal.com]

because I no longer have a clear idea of what was actually said, and my impression is so very different from yours!

Re: now I need a transcript

[serafina20.livejournal.com]

Although I have a feeling this is an exercise in futility:

Clark is standing at the loft, looking out. He hears footsteps, and turns. When he sees Lex, he turns away, tense. His arms are crossed over his chest.

Lex: I wanted to say thank you and I'm sorry. I know you were only trying to help me

Clark (turning to Lex): How long is this going to continue, Lex

Lex: I don't know. What do you want me to tell you?

Clark: I don't want you to tell me anything. I want you to change.

Lex: I don't know if I can (faces out the window)

Clark: You know it seems the only person you care about is yourself. (opens his body to Lex.) There's a whole side of you I don't know about Lex. I mean, what else don't I know about you.

Lex: You don't know that every day I wonder why I keep going. Why I do the things I do. (turns to Clark) You know Shannon might gave been crazy, but she's right about me. I treated those women terribly, Clark. People died and I could have stopped it. I see that now.

Clark: (expression softens) That's a start.

Lex: You know, there was a moment the other night when that fire she set was coming towards me and I thought, 'good.' save the world a lot of grief. Then somehow the fire went out. She was lying on the floor. and suddenly I had a second chance

(close up on Clark's face and his eyes go down, as if he's thinking/processing. I think this is where he uncrosses his arms, too.)

Clark: (haltingly and in a much softer tone than in the beginning) The last few days, Lex, I felt that your father was being more honest with me than you were. and I hated that feeling. I felt like we were enemies.

Lex: don't give up on me yet.

( Clark looks frightned)

I honstly think that, with the information Clark has in the beginning, he can't understand where Lex is coming from. When he acts out on Red!K, not only is he in an altered state, but he's *make that choice* to behave in that way. He doesn't understand that Lex might not be making choices from a "stable" position. Even though Clark realizes that Lex's mind ahs been fucked with, I don't think he has the experience to connect the two. I had a bipolar friend who treated me like shit. I understood that the way she treated me stemmed from her mental problem, but it still pissed me off when she'd do things like sleep with the girl I was with or dump me in the street outside my house when I was sick.

When he hears the depth of Lex's self-loathing, his reaction is basically, "Great. What are you going to do about it." And he's right there. LEx is depressed and seeking comfort in all the wrong places and in all the wrong ways. It doesn't make it right. It doesn't make his behavior healthy. It's good that he recognizes it, but he needs to actively to something to try and change. Beyond that, Lex needs to hear it. He needs to be told that his behavior isn't right and he better shape up.

Then, Lex goes on about welcoming death and brings up the second chance. This is his, what, tenth second chance? But his language pretty much is the same as what he used when he first met Clark, and Clark remembers this. His expression changes (it's subtle, but there) and his tone changes, and he lets himself be vulnerable. Now, he's not lashing out, he's showing Lex *where* his pain is and *why* he feels that way ("I felt like your *father* was being more hoenst with me. That ain't right, baby.") Even without the slashy implications, what he's saying is that for once, he felt like this bastard who's meant nothing but trouble to them was being more honest than Clark's best friend.

By the end of the scene, Clark's anger and frustration has melted away. He may not understand or condone Lex's actions, but at least he's told Lex about his problems and Lex actually responded to them instead of dancing around and trying to doubletalk. Because Lex does that too. LEx was honest, Clark was honest, I think this is going to be one of my favorite Clark/Lex scenes ever.

[stone-princess.livejournal.com]

Very interesting. I certainly don't see what other people seem to se ein Clark. Regardless of everything else he's still a sheltereed, smalltown high school boy who has no frame of reference for dealing with people like Lex. I'm not saying that Clark's perfect, he surely could be a better friend, but he certainly doesn't at all understand how his actions and reactions affect someone like Lex.

I'll certainly be still thinking aboutt his. I'd like to explore more of Lex's dark sid ein fic, because that's really what we were seeing last night, the part of Lex that's totally broken that he tries to never reveal. And now that I'm typing this, I realize for me, that's always been the crux of their relationship and I think I (and others) have lost sight of that. Of Clark's good balancing Lex's bad. And maybe it doesn't. Maybe Clark can't be good enough to be an equal balance. Or maybe it's like that great line from Angel:

Wesley: There is a line, Lilah. Black and white. Good and evil.
Lilah: Funny thing about black and white: you mix it together and you get gray. And it doesn't matter how much white you try and put back in, you're never gonna get anything but gray.

Maybe Clark's already got too much grey in him to help Lex like Lex needs to be helped. Or maybe Clark turns away from the grey in himself and thus becomes blind to the things he should see about Lex.

Uh, I clearly need to think this through more, instead of letting it ramble out all stream on consciousness here.