Men with Babies

[serafina20]

One complaint that I always see in rants about MPregs is the fact that we're writing about men and the fics are only written by women who think that having a baby with someone is an expression of love. The implication that I always take away is that men don't want children. That the only reason people procreate is because women want to have babies. Also, I get the impression that there's a feeling that throwing a kid into the mix will somehow take something essential away from the maleness of the characters.

Why is that? I mean, I know there are some men who don't want children, just as there are women who don't want children. But, am I mistaken in the idea that there are gay men adopting or desiring children to raise? And what does it say about the characters if having a child takes away from them. I'm not talking badfic, because, Lord knows, I've read really badly done fic where men adopt kids and they turn into strange stereotypes of women. (This is different from me saying they are "feminized", because I don't believe in that term; what I mean is, in TV and movies, there are stereotypical behaviors that are sometimes shown when women want or have babies. They turn into cutesy, gushy, annoyingly chipper charicatures, and I've seen the same behavior in males in baby!fic. It's not annoying because they're men; it's annoying becuase the behavior is annoying.)

I also buy that it's hard to see some men with children, but isn't that what a good writer is for? To make you believe it?

I just don't get the complaint that slash-fic shoudl be baby free because their MEN. Maybe someone could explain it to me.

Comments

[firesignwriter.livejournal.com]

::shrug:: I don't get it either. Nor do I get the knee-jerk response against mpreg. I've not read much of it, but some of what I've read has been endearingly funny and touching. Sure, it takes either some very clever plot device or massive suspension of disbelief, but so what? What else is creativity for, if not to imagine the repercussions of that which Doesn't Happen in our mundane worlds?

I mean, for fuck's sake, my dad is more maternal than my mom was, and I know many men who are better at the hands-on stuff with kids than many women. It doesn't bother me when the more parental side of a man is explored in fic. It may not always be what I'm in the mood to read, but sometimes I will be, and more power to the writers who make the effort and do it well.

[serafina20.livejournal.com]

I'm honestly very leery about Mpreg outside a science fiction genre. I'd rather read about two men adotping/finding/or having a kid somehow given to them than read how Jack Sparrow got pregnant and how he and Norrington dealt with it. But, there are people will say *any* fic in which our heros somehow raise a child together is inehrently badfic because they're men, it makes them schmoopy (which it may, but not by default) and it's not the expression of love that everyoen makes it out to be. That's thepart that really bothers me.

[firesignwriter.livejournal.com]

I don't much care how it happens -- I can have an insanely open mind about fic, and good writing makes me forgive a helluva lot -- but guys with kids? Totally doable. Totally worth doing. Again, not always what I'm up for reading -- I don't have or want kids of my own, so can't always relate with the stuff personally -- but there's most definitely a place for exploring that stuff in fanfic.

[serafina20.livejournal.com]

and good writing makes me forgive a helluva lot

Oh, definetely. I'll accept a mpreg as long as it's well written, but I'd prefer to explore the family dynamics to the actual pregnancy part. A lot of fics get caught up with the latter.

[kitkat3979.livejournal.com]

I've read several really good Mpreg, and also some really bad ones.

In most fandoms I probably wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole, but seeing as I only read Smallville slash, it's a bit more do-able. The alien biology throws a bit more realism into the mix.

I think it's the way that it's approached that makes the difference. I saw one fic where Clark got Lex pregnant, and Lex just says "OK then, let's move in together and be a family". I've also seen really good fic where the characters actually deal with the emotional toll of what's happening.

I don't see anything wrong with the fact that men have families in these fics, for me the problem is how realistically the actual pregnancies are dealt with.

[serafina20.livejournal.com]

I'm not jsut talkign about mpreg, though. I'm talking about people who have the same argument about adopting fic, former female lovers dumping their offspring on a male/male couple, or just a man expressing desires about having a family with his partner. People rail about how they're *men* and having children has nothing to do with love and ignore the fact that a. that's completely sexist, and b. there are pleanty of men (straight and gay) who actually *want* children and one reason they're searching for a partner is to have a family.

[kitkat3979.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with you. The argument that men don't want to have children, or that men don't see having children with someone as an expression of love is ridiculous. Real life gay couples do adopt children and have families, and I know several straight guys who can't wait to start a family when they meet the right person. The family aspect of mpreg fic has never bothered me, as long as it's done well.

[nasrani.livejournal.com]

I know this much. Some of the slash fic I've read with babies thrown in the mix are really good.

Just because some of them might not be too keen (straight or not) to chirp to the world on having an additional family member doesn't mean that they don't want to, really. It just means that sometimes you don't announce very important things to you to the world at large.

[serafina20.livejournal.com]

I know this much. Some of the slash fic I've read with babies thrown in the mix are really good.

I agree. And I always like stories taht deal with non-traditional family structures (which is one of the reasons I can't stop watching Summerland on the WB even though it's a badly written show). I don't think baby!fic automatically unmmans or woobiefies or takes away from a characters central charaterization or who they are.

[pepperjackcandy.livejournal.com]

aome is friends with a gay couple who have one adopted child (a boy) and are in the process of adopting a second.
Also, IRL some gay couples hire a surrogate to carry their baby. In that case, of course, the surrogate is usually the genetic mother of the child.

[serafina20.livejournal.com]

In the newspaper here, back when the SF marriage thing was happening, there were two men who got married and were leaving the court with their twin baby girls in snugglies. It happens in real life, so I don't get why people are resistant to the idea that Lex and Clark, Jim and Blair, Wesley and Gunn, or whatever pairing might want to have a family together. They don't on the show, but they're not togetehr on the show. Isn't fanfic supposed to explore options that you aren't going to get from canon?

[pepperjackcandy.livejournal.com]

It happens in real life, so I don't get why people are resistant to the idea that Lex and Clark, Jim and Blair, Wesley and Gunn, or whatever pairing might want to have a family together.

Yep. And I think that the Clark/Lex dynamic would be especially interesting, not only because they're the only pairing that you listed that I'm familiar with :grin:, but also because I think that Clark was raised to expect that he'd have kids someday, and Lex would reject the idea out-of-hand as part of rejecting Lionel's dynastic ambitions.

[rhiannonhero.livejournal.com]

I think that just like OCs, the entire thing with the babies is a bias born out of badfic. I think baby fic can be done well and I think, given the right situations, M-Preg can be done well.

There is part of me that wants to do a huge spoofy, wacky, stupid M-Preg for QaF where Brian or Justin is impregnated due to alien abduction, just to see if I could make people swallow that horse pill and enjoy it. But, I think I won't waste my time. ;)

[serafina20.livejournal.com]

I think that just like OCs, the entire thing with the babies is a bias born out of badfic.

You're probably right, and it's very annoying. We can accept these two men can fall in love with each other and want to be together,b ut the moment they pick out curtains or, God-forbid, a baby crib, we're OCC. It's so supid.

Good SV M-Preg or Babyfic?

[amf-wip.livejournal.com]

Can anyone rec a good M-Preg or Babyfic for Smallville? I've read one where Lex is the preg one, and Lionel makes him leave Met right after the baby's born, but that's the only good M-Preg SV I can remember seeing...

Re: Good SV M-Preg or Babyfic?

[serafina20.livejournal.com]

My favorite is Henry Jones Jr.'s Family, Friendship, and Love It's a Mpreg that focuses more on the building a family part, which is what I'm mostly interested in.

For baby!fic, I really liked ingrid_m's Livvie-verse . I have all the parts saved in my memories here.

I can't think of any others off the top of my head.