What you give is what you get

[serafina20]

This is riffing off thoughts spawned from a conversation in mecurtin's journal.



I realized, probably belatedly compared to everyone else, that the only person (besides Kyla, who doesn't count) that Clark has ever voluntarily told his secret to was Pete Ross. Yes, it was because of the ship, but I still think it's important. Pete is the only one of Clark's friends (Lana, Chloe, Lex) who never demanded anything Clark wasn't willing/ready to give. He wanted Clark's friendship, his presence, and his attention, and that's all. He accepted that Clark wasnt always there, that he'd disappear, and that he was quite often weird and did the unexplained. And he never asked why. Or, if he did, he accepted Clark's answer.

Maybe he was dim or stupid or didn't really care, but, whatever the reason, he was the one Clark told. Because Clark wasn't threatened by Pete. Chloe, Lana, Lex? All threatening. Not only did they *want* his secret, but, at various times, believed they were *entitled* to Clark's secrets. Especially Lex and Lana.

Lex is proably the most heartbreaking of the three because, of all of them, he's the one who probably could have accepted Clark's secret and not been scared or seen it as an opportunity for fame. The problem is, he pushed. From the moment he and Clark met, he demanded things that Clark wasn't ready to give.

If Lex wanted Clark to trust him, he himself had to have been trustworthy. But he hid things, and the major thing he hid was his investigation of Clark. And that investigation kept surfacing throughout their relationship. It simmered down in S2, but Lex kept pushing at Clark. Trying to get him into a relationship he wasn't ready for instead of waiting for Clark to come to him. Ignoring the fact that the rift would have come anyway, I can see that, had Lex made a safe space for Clark to come to, like Pete did, one where he wasn't constantly asked about the past, the future, or needled at for the truth, eventually Clark would have opened up.

Do I think the "rift" is all Lex's fault? No. Do I think he's a bad guy? Absolutely not. But Lex's tragic flaw is his inablility to wait. He has to dig and get at everything *right now*. He can't trust, and it's not just because Clark lies to him. I know it's due to Lionel as well, but it's not *Clark's* responsiblity to be honest and spill his secrets just because Lex has a bad father.

(I'm not getting into the S3 secrets Clark kept right now because they're not relevant to his alien secret. I'm also not saying Clark is an saint or perfect or anything. He, like Lex, is tragically flawed, making them *both* the tragic heros of the story).

I hope this is semi-coherent. I'm really tired, but won't be here tomorrow, so wanted to get this out now.

Comments

[raelan.livejournal.com]

Not only did they *want* his secret, but, at various times, believed they were *entitled* to Clark's secrets. Especially Lex and Lana.

I'm honestly puzzled by this sense of entitlement they all have. Sometimes I'm downright annoyed by it. It seems almost unacceptable to be different, have secrets that you aren't willing to share and doesn't affect anyone else because quite frankly that's like waving a red flag to most of the characters.
Lex doesn't mind having his own secrets but can't seem to understand why Clark would have one and Lana has to know or else (if this isn't emotional blackmail then I don't know what is). All they accomplish is to make Clark retreat from them and become even more stubborn.

If Lex had just accepted that Clark had a secret that he was reluctant to tell and mot been so impatient with his need to know then Clark would have probably told him when he came to terms with his past and heritage. But that isn't really Lex, he's curiosity has to be satisfied now and this friendship was never going to stop him from finding out.

They were really doomed from the beginning, it would have been much better if Lex had met Clark in college. Clark could have coped better and Lex may have backed off.

Chloe is really the only one gaining an undertstanding that Clark needs space to come to terms with whatever he's obviously wrangling with. She lapsed in Truth but Clark understood why and forgave her.
She gets Clark more than most, that he's introspective, internalises a lot and continually asking him questions is never going to work on him (unless you emotionally blackmail him). A more mature Clark would appreciate her much better, thereby Lois in the future. Lana's inability to understand this fundamental aspect of Clark's personality will be why she doesn't get him in the end.

Of course I see S4 Clark having less patience with all of this just like Lex lost his patience with Clark lying.

I'm also not saying Clark is an saint or perfect or anything.
I look on Clark as being far from it. He went through a huge majority of S3 calling on all the teenage angst and immaturity in the world. This was more obvious during the latter part of the season and I think this was done on purpose to show a marked difference with the Clark that will emerge from the void. He will be even more reserved emotionally and personality wise.

besides Kyla, who doesn't count
LOL, she definitely never counted with her bad acting and even worse dying scene.

[serafina20.livejournal.com]

Lex doesn't mind having his own secrets but can't seem to understand why Clark would have one and Lana has to know or else (if this isn't emotional blackmail then I don't know what is).

What's especially ironic about Lana is how she told Ryan about how everyone having their secrets in "Stray." At that moment, she seemed like a good match for Clark because she was the only one (besides Pete) who would understand the need to hide things deep inside. But during S2, she appropriated so many of Lex's characteristics, and one of them was the impatience and sense of entitlement to Clark's secrets.

Clark could have coped better and Lex may have backed off.

I really think a big part of it is an age/comfort thing. Lex just comes on so strong to Clark that I think it terrified the poor boy. A lot of strength and self-confidence comes with age, and an older Clark would have been a lot better prepared to deal with Lex. I think part of his problem now is that he might feel that Lex does have a right to know, which makes him, emotionally, in a weaker place. Or, if not have the right, then he wants to tell Lex, but isn't ready to deal with everything himself.

it's so easy to skew this all queer, too. How Lex tried to force Clark out of the closet and into a sexual relationship too soon, and the room is like him forcing the issue until Clark has to cry rape to protect himself.

She gets Clark more than most, that he's introspective, internalises a lot and continually asking him questions is never going to work on him (unless you emotionally blackmail him).

I think, also, she more than the other two has seen the consequences of not backing off. It's still a slow and rocky process fighting her instincts, but the slaps in the face help.

He went through a huge majority of S3 calling on all the teenage angst and immaturity in the world.

I find taht funny because I though the opposite would happen this season. In Phoenix, I remembered thinking how he seemed comfortable with his alien half, and having spend all summer away, he might act mroe confident and mature, etc. And then he didn't; he spent most of the season acting like an idiot with his head stuffed up his ass. Sad, that.

[raelan.livejournal.com]

I find taht funny because I though the opposite would happen this season. In Phoenix, I remembered thinking how he seemed comfortable with his alien half, and having spend all summer away, he might act mroe confident and mature, etc. And then he didn't; he spent most of the season acting like an idiot with his head stuffed up his ass. Sad, that.
I also thought that he would be more mature but I had the feeling that he would never fully accept his alien half until he had dealt with Jor-el. He can't truly accept that part of himself when he thinks that they are all monsters. I think he pushed it to the back of his mind.

But of course as each episode went along he found out that you can't ignore what you are. He got a new power, got even more confirmation that he would outlive everyone due to what he was, found out that his blood could raise the dead, Lionel in his face at every turn and learned that Jor-el wasn't really finished with him or his family. It was almost too much for him to handle.

This is where I will say the Kents let him down because he wasn't helped at all, just got some reassuring words and Jonathan wouldn't even tell him what was happening with Jor-el. Essentially he was alone. Thereby we had a return to the angst and immaturity as he dealt with it the way the only way he knew (at this point most kids would be seeing a psychiatrist but it's impossible with him).

Clark is never going to move on until he reconciles with his Kryptonian heritage. No matter that he was raised by humans, he's still an alien. Hence I think that's what the void is all about, a learning process.

I hope that made sense, it's early in the morning here *g*.

[the-atlien.livejournal.com]

I get what you're saying. I told LaT the other day that the moment Clark truly loses his shit in that room when he sees the computer animated car crash. Now, if you think about it, Lex told Clark in Leech that a) he investigated him and b)he hit at 60 mph. Now, I'm not saying that the animatation shouldn't be a surprise to Clark but I think his part of his reaction was due to "Lex knows before I had the opportunity to tell him. What if he freaks out on me??!!" Much like his dream/nightmare in Slumber.

I'll stop talking now because it's 6:30 am and I'm rambling. I hope you make some sense out that post.

[serafina20.livejournal.com]

I'll stop talking now because it's 6:30 am and I'm rambling. I hope you make some sense out that post.


Considering how tired I was when I made this post, I'm surprised it was even coherent.

Now, I'm not saying that the animatation shouldn't be a surprise to Clark but I think his part of his reaction was due to "Lex knows before I had the opportunity to tell him. What if he freaks out on me??!!"

That's a good point. I think a lot of Clark's fear and frustration with Lex all along as been that he *wants* to tell Lex who and what he is and how he saved Lex, but he hasn't come to terms with it all the way yet and Lex keeps pushing. Coupled with Lex's sense that he deserves to know, which is just annoying, I understand why Clark keeps pulling away. And then to see that, yeah, it'd be upsetting because it's *Clark's* secret and he wanted to be the one to finally tell Lex.

[sabershadowkat.livejournal.com]

Thanks for spelling out a lot of what some people think about "Sharing the Secret." Many of the good fics that really work have Lex finally accepting that Clark will tell him in time and he should just stop pushing.

In the show, it's a base characteristic of Lex's to want to know everything - the more you know, the better to protect/serve yourself - and the fact that he can compartmentalize means he doesn't really get that what he's doing is wrong. *He* is able to be Clark's friend at the same time he's investigating; if Lex's life was a spreadsheet, the secret/questioning fall into a different category than the friends one.

The pushing aspect can be summed up better by labeling it as trust. Pete trusts Clark unconditionally. Sure, they fought and got mad for withholding information, but Pete's inherent trust in their friendship, the fact that Pete is Clark's friend for friendship's sake, is the key. The others don't have that trust in him, they treat Clark's friendship as a commodity, taking what they need from him and giving in return but with the strings.

It does make for an interesting, tangled furture for Clark to end up with Lois. Comic-canon wise, we know that Lois is more like SV-Lex with her curiousity, insatiable need to know everything, and controlling nature. I think it's the fact that she pretty much ignores Clark - notes the disappearances, is annoyed by them, but never follows up - is one of the reasons why he falls for her. Of course, the fact that she's hot for the alien first, not the man, makes it warped on Clark's part to like her, but then again in the comics, for a long time, Clark was the costume while Superman was the person, and not vice versa.

/rambling

[serafina20.livejournal.com]

Thanks for spelling out a lot of what some people think about "Sharing the Secret."

You're welcome. I'm glad it makes sense to more people than just me. It's one of those things where I'm just so tired of finger pointing, especially in one direction (Clark), especially since, on rewatching all of S1 in such a short time, I can see clearer where the finger should be pointed in the other direction as well (Lex). And I also think it's easier to see where the flaws on both sides are now that I'm more reconciled to the Rift in "fake world" (as opposed to the Real World, i.e. fanfiction.;)

*He* is able to be Clark's friend at the same time he's investigating; if Lex's life was a spreadsheet, the secret/questioning fall into a different category than the friends one.

That's very true, and it's a pity that Jonathan couldn't see that. If he hadn't been feeding Clark's fear all along, Clark might have been able to come to an understanding of this after his run in with Nixon.

The pushing aspect can be summed up better by labeling it as trust.

I agree it's trust, but I also think that, in Lex's case, it's a question of wanting everything all at once. He's thrilled and facinated and drawn to Clark and, for the first time, think he's found someone he can trust to not hurt him. But, since he's never really had a good relationship before, he doesn't understand the limits. It's all or nothing, so he keeps pushing and pushing because, I think, he either does or really, badly wants to trust. We've seen him handle people beautifully before, manipulate them, make them comfortable, make them uneasy, but, when it comes to Clark, Lex has no frame of reference, so he has no idea what to do. So he asks for too much too soon and it helps drive a wedge between them from the very beginning. They never are able to reach the level of closeness either wanted and, thus, Clark is never comfortable enough to unburden himself and Lex never gets what he wants.

And now I'm sad. :(

[sabershadowkat.livejournal.com]

when it comes to Clark, Lex has no frame of reference, so he has no idea what to do


That's so very true, and was hugely prevalent in s1 and s2(another big fandom fic-staple), and with season three Lex just seems to be getting tired and frustrated and annoyed, and he's learning it just isn't worth it to try.

[elychari.livejournal.com]

yes, pete ross didn't demand from clark...but i thought that was because the writers just didn't think him important enough for more than a couple of lines of dialogue per episode before the big "Revelation". after that, then he got pretty whiney and demanding.

Lex's tragic flaw is his inablility to wait. He has to dig and get at everything *right now*. He can't trust, and it's not just because Clark lies to him.

i agree that lex is somewhat demanding...however, his impatience is aggravated by clark's pathetic attempts at lying. yes, clark has no responsibility to tell lex the truth but does he have to insult lex's intelligence with his horrible attempts at lying? it really feels like a betrayal when you know a friend is lying to you.

furthermore, lex is more than justified. he is not just questioning clark for the sake of knowing clark's secrets. first, he legitimately wants to know what happened during an accident wherein he was also involved. second, his quests for the truth, from what i remember, are direct assaults on Lionel's dirty illegal secrets. unfortunately, because of Clark's subsequent heroish involvement with Lionel's projects, Lex collides into Clark's secret. It's a mountain meeting an immovable force kind of tragedy.

Can i go cry and be bitter now?

[serafina20.livejournal.com]

i agree that lex is somewhat demanding...however, his impatience is aggravated by clark's pathetic attempts at lying.

He woudln't have had to have gotten so aggravated had he been a better people person. Lex came on too strong and he scared Clark. Clark's 15, and suddenly this stranger has come into his life. Clark attracted and intrigued, and scared out of his mind because almost every single time he meets Lex, Lex is trying to pry into Clark's private life. My point isn't that Lex didn' deserve to be aggravated and want the truth, it's that he went about it the wrong way. Watch the show from the very beginning again: the harder Lex pushes Clark, the faster Clark retreats. The more freaked out he gets. And Lex never realized that. He just kept pushing harder, when what he should have done was backed the fuck off and waited for Clark to come to him. Which, if Lex had been a Pete Ross and just accepted Clark's friendship with no conditions, Clark eventually would have.

[pickinguproses.livejournal.com]

This is a very interesting thread. Lots to think about.

You know, I've often wondered...if Clark had just told Lex that he had a secret, and asked him to just let it go for a while, would it have made a difference to Lex? He could just say "I can't tell you, but I don't want to lie, so please don't ask." Then Clark wouldn't have had to lie to him every time he turned around. I've read this a few times in fic and it seems like such an obvious solution. Although, I never could really tell with Lex if he felt entitled to know the secret, or if he just felt entitled to honesty, however much Clark could share. So maybe it would have made no difference at all.

These boys...

[serafina20.livejournal.com]

You know, I've often wondered...if Clark had just told Lex that he had a secret, and asked him to just let it go for a while, would it have made a difference to Lex? He could just say "I can't tell you, but I don't want to lie, so please don't ask."

I think it would have made the difference. Lex wanted the secret, but more than that, he wanted to know he was trusted. By asking Lex to let it go, it would have told Lex that Clark just wasn't ready to tell, and it wasn't personal. And, also, Lex wouldn't have felt that Clark was insulting his intelligence.

I could have been so easy .... *sigh*