Why? No. Really.

[serafina20]

Okay, so I was over at fanfic_hate, because I'm always amazed and marvled at how people can be nasty to each other (and, occasionally, there can be something throught-provoking in a lot of wank) and, lo and behold, I came across something thought-provoking.

Someone said that the thing that bothers them about some authors is, when given constructive critiscism, the giver is either bitched at, flamed, and/or ignored (emphasis mine).

And my question is: why should you be listened to?

Let me back up.

First off: I'm probably not a good person to be talking about gracefully taking constructive crit. I try. Really. I *think* I do a good job accepting beta's suggestions, and suggestions from people I know and trust. And I try, when strangers say something, to take that. I have ranted before on feedback I've gotten, but I honestly don't think that telling me to slap my inner bitch and stop taking my Lana-hate out on the character in my fic is constructive.

But, I might not be good to talk about this. *However*. While it's always good/nice/helpful to hear advice, thoughts, and critcism on a fic, sometimes, honestly, the reader's advice is just "wrong." By wrong, I mean that their interpretation is off or different from what the author intended. Yes, authorial intent doesn't count for much when against reader interpretation, but why should I change my story based on an interpretation I don't agree with? Especially when there are people who did understand what I was supposed to do? The feelign I'm getting over on ff_hate is that anyone who likes these "crap-fics" are just *lying* and saying they like it to:

A. Be popular
B. Because they like the author, or
C. because they're morons?

I don't know. I mean, I get fanfic hate. There are fics that I can't stand that other people love. But a lot of the reason I can't stand the stories are due to interpretation. I had to stop reading a series because, to me, it got creepy, but a lot of other people liked it. Should I have written to the author and told her that her story would be better if she had done a. or b. instead of c? Maybe, if I wanted to "help" her. But, on the other hand, that's awefully arrogant of me to assume I know what she's doing better than herself.

Which, I think, is why I was getting so short tempered with people who thought I was taking pot-shots with Lana because I hated her. I dont', especially in COTW. I really like my Lana. I almost am my Lana. But I was doing something deliberatly (trying to tear down her self-delusions and comfort zones in order to get her to grow. Because, face it. S1 and S2 Lana just didn't grow at all. S3 Lana, however. That's my girl.;)

So, yeah. Anyway. My question is, is a writer "obligated" to take all suggestions and criticims on their work, or is it okay for them to discard the suggestions because it's just not what they're trying to do? (Politely, of course. There's no reason to flame, bitch, or anything to someone who is, in the end, trying to do a service and help make your writing better, even if you don't agree).

Comments

[velvetglove.livejournal.com]

I love my betas, but I almost invariably ignore beta remarks about storyline or tone. And if a beta says, "I don't think Character X would do that," I rewrite so that it's clear why s/he would do it--I don't get rid of the action. I've got my plan, after all, however ill-defined it might be ;)

And the little bit of "negative" crit I've received from readers makes it clear to me that they either didn't understand or didn't care where I was going. I'm not going to make any men pregnant. I'm not going to make Lionel have sex with his sons. By the end of S3, Regular!Clark is much more of a badass than Red!Clark ever was, so I'm still inclinded to respectfully disagree with readers who thought my Red!Clark was a pussy. If I've done what I wanted to do, negative opinions apparently don't have much impact on me.

Of course, I don't want to see any of my stories shredded in public, but I feel like I know their shortcomings and strengths already. If someone were to say something with more utility than, "I hate her Lex!!!!" it might be interesting, but I'm not counting on hate threads to give me useful feedback.

[serafina20.livejournal.com]

I love my betas, but I almost invariably ignore beta remarks about storyline or tone. And if a beta says, "I don't think Character X would do that," I rewrite so that it's clear why s/he would do it--I don't get rid of the action. I've got my plan, after all, however ill-defined it might be ;)

Every once in awhile, a beta is able to talk me out of a particular action, but usually it's because I'm already have doubts about it and wanted a second opinion. Other than that, yeah, I'll try and come up with new ways to explain why the character is donig a particular thing so it makes sense.

And the little bit of "negative" crit I've received from readers makes it clear to me that they either didn't understand or didn't care where I was going.

Yes, that's it exactly. It's one of those things were, I'm sorry they didn't get it, but that's not really my fault. Or my problem, and, in most cases, if I try to explain it, they think they're being flamed. In that case, I realy need to remember just to say, "thank you" and move on with my life.

but I'm not counting on hate threads to give me useful feedback.

Oh, me neither. And they seem ... silly to me, because I know that not everyone is going to like every fic out there. So why bother telling everyone you hate such and such fic? Just as everyoen doesn't share the opinions of those who like it, not everyone is goign to share the opinions of those who don't.

Thanks for commenting!

[mlleelizabeth.livejournal.com]

I have a feeling you're not talking about beta readers here, but just in case ... Since most of my beta suggestions are grammar/spelling/punctuation, this may not apply, but I do expect my suggestions to at least be given consideration, since I've taken the time to beta the fic and make a redline. I certainly don't expect every single suggestion I make to be followed, but if an author didn't even bother to look at them, and it was obvious when the fic was posted due to the glaring errors in it, I would be pretty unhappy about that, and never offer to beta for that person again. This is strictly hypothetical, as I've never had anyone do that and I'm just imagining how that would make me feel.

On the other hand, unasked for suggestions are, I think, perfectly valid to ignore. I agree that flaming con crit is awful, but ignoring it is the author's right. And if the reader doesn't like it, then they probably should stop reading that author's fic.

[serafina20.livejournal.com]

I have a feeling you're not talking about beta readers here, but just in case ...

Well, since I have had differences of opinions with beta readers in the past, I count them in with this. I'm counting anyone who comments on a fic.

Since most of my beta suggestions are grammar/spelling/punctuation, this may not apply, but I do expect my suggestions to at least be given consideration, since I've taken the time to beta the fic and make a redline.

Oh, definitely. I, personally, consider every suggestion I'm given, be it grammar or content. Anyone who takes the time to make a suggestion and give it politely should, of course, be given the courtesy of consideration. But, sometimes, when given a suggestion, I just don't agree. Once or twice, the beta (not you;) has had the wrong information, so I rejected it outright. A few times, I knew why I was doing something and why my choice was necessary, and, once or twice, I just don't agree at all. Becuase of a really bad experience I had where I tried to explain why i don't agree to a beta before, i tend not to state my position anymore (which is too bad becuase sometimes I end up seeing from the other point of view and agreeing), but I'm wondering if the person who said that they were ignored ... well, wasn't ignored, but their suggestion just wasn't taken.

I hope that made sense. Thanks for commenting!

[mlleelizabeth.livejournal.com]

It makes lots of sense! And actually, there have been times when I didn't get what the author was trying to do, and we agreed to disagree and that was fine, or they explained it and that was fine. One thing I won't do as a beta is tell someone what their story should be. And in those situations, I usually try to ask a question rather than make a suggestion, because I know very well that I may just not be getting it. And now I'm wondering if I'm making sense! *g*

I think you're probably right about what happened to the person who said they were ignored. The person they made the suggestion to may very well have read it, considered it, and not wanted either to take the suggestion or to explain why they weren't.