serafina20 (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
serafina20) wrote2009-03-14 06:52 pm
serafina20) wrote2009-03-14 06:52 pm
Entry tags:
Watchmen
I finished the book again today and saw the movie. I took notes.
I'm going to start with version 986 of how much Adrian's plan bugs me and, even more, how they all just go along with it. Now, I'm going to reiterate that the book version literally makes me want to cry. He sounds like a fucking lunatic and the plan is so fucking insane I just can't... And why the heck are there all the sudden psychics in the world? Where did that come from? And, from what I can see is that Moore is saying that Adrian's a huge fuckwit who's gone over to the Death Ship on quest doomed to fail from the start (if "Tales of the Black Freighter" is a metaphor for Veidt) so what's with everyone going all, 'oh, it was awful, but Veidt totally saved the world!" (that was to be read in a high, Squeaky Fromme-from Assassins OBC album-type voice)
As for the movie (and the book):
Clearly, Adrian managed to stop nuclear holocaust. I will totally give him that. Could it have happened another way? Perhaps. But the world's "smartest man" chose to go the route he did. Fine.
But here's the thing: the way Adrian talks about it, he makes it seem like the very nature of humanity is going to change because of this. He links every evil in mankind - homelessness, lack of funds to care for the eldery, poverty, debt, etc. - to the fact nations push all their money in to war and weapons. Get rid of that, people'll be able to focus on one another, be kind, etc. etc.
But what works on a large scale (nations calling a truce, making treaties) doesn't work on small scales. Look at Sally her the last scene: pissed and frustrated that people have come "begging" and that nothing's "sacred. It never ends, never." And she's right. Murderers will still murder, pedophiles will still defile, rapists will still rape, and those who can screw someone weaker than themselves over will. Maybe not all at once, but this "utopia" ain't.
Also, if the world's leaders think that we're under eminent threat of an alien invasion, what do you think they're going to do? That's right, start researching, etc. to find ways to defend themselves.
This is one reason I think it was such a good idea to make Manhattan the threat. He's God: they think he's watching, and he's already shown what he'll do if the world gets that close to war again. He'll spank them and hard (which is what Dan says in his last scene in the movie.)
As for Adrian not being punished: I still call bullshit. In the book, he says that they can't risk an investigation because it might upset the peace. A) Bullshit. Millions die, and Manhattan can't fake Adrian's death along with all of them? B) In the movie, they can say that Adrian was killed because he was creating a weapon or trying to match Manhattan (God's) powers, so the villain of the piece decided to off him. Easy peasey.
Also, Dan, Adrian is not a pacifist. A pacifist doesn't go out and beat up bad guys. He might idealize pacification (?), but he ain't no pacifist.
And, on to the notes:
If the Comedian didn't want anything to do with the Watchmen (as called in movie) why did he stick around to get his picture taken? And when did that picture get taken? Was it for Laurie? (Also, was there a picture of them in the book? I can't remember).
At the beginning, the Comedian is watching TV. He flips around, then comes across something that looks like really fluffy porn. It's not, however; it's a commercial for Nostalgia. Why is he so happy about it? He grins and leans back and looks like he just found the best show ever.
Why does the Comedian call Night Owl "Dan" during the riot? I was under the impression that Dan didn't know who the Comedian really was until Rorschach told him; why was he revealing his secret identity to everyone? And why shout it out in the middle of a fucking riot? And why did none of the second wave seem to know Edward Blake = Comedian? (Well, maybe Manhattan, and I can't remember about Veidt; but Rorschach didn't know until he found the picture, and Dan didn't until Rorschach told him).
I think my dad had Dan's glasses back in the eighties.
At the funeral, when Manhattan arrives, Rorschach is standing right next to Dan and Adrian. Really, really close. Turned toward them and looking at them (Dan). In fact, every scene where Dan walks passed "Walter", Rorschach is staring him down, causing Dan to turn and look. Obviously, this is totally slashy. And Rorschach is silently pleading with Dan to see him for who he truly is.
Also, Moloch and the Comedian totally did it.
In the book, the Comedian flew over the island, happened to see it, and decided to investigate. In the movie, Nixon had him spying on Adrian and Manhattan. I still wonder how he uncovered so much.
Why would anyone proposition a wanted felon in a mask who smells, even a desperate prostitute?
There's a hidden Mickey in the movie: the lock on the cemetery that Rorschach opens.
Laurie: "Your finger's like licking a battery." ... whatever turns you on, dear.
Manhattan devices is called S.Q.U.I.D. Didn't quite see what it stood for, but I saw that. Also, I still think it was Adrian's idea to send two of Manhattan in to play with Laurie. And, assuming that Adrian is gay, do you think he just loves working with Manhattan? :)
I had my eyes mostly covered, but was Laurie killing people during the attack on her and Dan in the scary dark alley they randomly decided to walk down? 'Cause, I thought that was Rorschach's gig, and the rest of them just kind of pounded thugs into submission. I know some were alive at the end, but I thought I saw her break someone's neck and then stab another through the neck.
I think someone else posted this link way back, but Dr. Manhattan real life counterpart. Sad.
Janey Slater is beautiful, but just a tad too thin. Apparently, she was on Smallville the other night or something.
In the book, cars ran on battery power because Dr. Manhattan was able to mass produce the polyethylene batteries. In the movie, they chose to go with an "oil crisis." Wonder why.
I like that in the book, Ozy turned down the idea to make Nite Owl and Rorschach dolls, but in the movie, he has a complete set of vanity-figures in his office.
Sitting in lotus position is not a good look for a floating naked man.
Adrian's assassin is the worst shot. I love what a fucking bastard he is, ducking behind the people who were annoying him (and who might not be in New York when Adrian set up us the bomb) so they got shot. But then he's all, "Give me a name!" while covering the fucking dude's mouth. Which the security guard could see. Good thing he died a few days later.
I think I had Laurie's sunglasses in the early 90s.
In the book, Rorschach is 45. In the movie, they say he's 35. Jackie Earle Haley is 47. Why the age change?
I like the shrink in the movie much better than in the book. Dude in the book was a moron, stupid, gullible, and just plain bad. This guy at least seems fairly competent. Doesn't believe the "butterfly" and "pretty flowers" bull and doesn't get teary eyed when Rorschach says he doesn't like him.
Patrick Wilson is fifty million kinds of awesome. From beginning to end. And he gets 10 gold stars for that first sex scene. He was brilliant.
I am still sooooooo sad he doesn't have the goggles on when he's standing naked in the Owl Cave.
Do you think Rorschach is as smart as Adrian?
I like the song "Hallelujah". I love Jeff Buckley's version to death. I like Leonard Cohen's, just not the beginning. I don't know if he did it purposefully or not, but he sounds like he's over doing it, like a parody.
This is the longest sex scene in the history of the world. Also, Laurie keeps her stupid-ass boots on. Kinky. Like licking a battery.
Re the riot: Pay attention Smallville directors. Notice the lack of cons TPing the place (throwing it is okay; slumber party TP-ings is not) and the complete lack of pillow fights. See that? That's how to do a prison riot.
Dr. Manhattan has a stupid butt.
So, Manhattan tells Laurie that when she left him, he left earth. This is not exactly true. She left him, he went to his TV interview. Then, he was bombed with the idea that he had given cancer to those he loved (and fought against). Then he left earth.
You know, for the smartest man on earth, Adrian's... kind of obvious. Obsession with Egypt. Pharaohs, pyramids, Egypt stuff all over. Names his dummy corporation (or whatever) Pyramid Industries. Keeps a dics with a pyramid in with all his other stuff. Makes the password the Egyptian name of his superhero name. Dude.
I missed his "boys" folder. This makes me sad.
When he's in Karnac, and he's using his German accent, he sounds kind of drunk. Jeremy Irons did, too, in Die Hard with a Vengeance. Wonder why that is.
You know, Rorschach's journal only says that Veidt killed the Comedian, chased Manhattan off (if that, it kinda didn't) and Rorschah's framing. He does say that Veidt's behind the conspiracy, whatever that is, but, really, who is going to believe that he came up with that stupid squid or the whole Manhattan thing?
Well. They might figure out the whole Manhattan thing.
Rorschach's last journal entry is beautiful. I wish they could have read the whole thing in the film. It's just lovely.
The way it's done in the movie, even with Manhattan saying that Sally "loved a man she had every reason to hate", I don't think Sally loved or even liked the Comedian. It seems more like it was a mistake, drunken or not. Like something had happened (maybe she was frustrated with covering for Hooded Justice and Captain Metropolis) and sort of turned to someone who was there. But the way she reacted to him when he met Laurie didn't make me think she ever had fond feelings for him.
In the book... I don't know.
I love that you can see Adrian triggering the device as Rorschach and Dan are walking up to Karnack.
You know, it really bugs me that Adrian keeps calling Rorschach as sociopath. Apparently it's now called antisocial personality disorder. According to MayoClinic, a sociopath is:
* Disregard for right and wrong
* Persistent lying or deceit
* Using charm or wit to manipulate others
* Recurring difficulties with the law
* Repeatedly violating the rights of others
* Child abuse or neglect
* Intimidation of others
* Aggressive or violent behavior
* Lack of remorse about harming others
* Impulsive behavior
* Agitation
* Poor or abusive relationships
* Irresponsible work behavior
That's so not Rorschach. The Comedian, yes. Rorschach, no. Rorschach's probably a paranoid schizophrenic or just a "regular" schizophrenic. Symptoms: # Neglect of personal hygiene, Lack of emotions, Angry outbursts, etc. (Although definitely not clumsy movements). So. He needs to stop calling Rorschach that.
It seems like the Manhattan bombs are not all at once, but progressive. New York was the last hit.
I kind of want Bubastis to put herself back together and come fuck Adrian's shit up.
And, that's all.
Ever notice that the more you get into something, the way you refer to the characters change? I'm 45 pages into my "Watchman" fic, and I've switched from Veidt to Adrian (or Ozy) 'cause that's what I've been writing.
Off to clean the litter box.
I'm going to start with version 986 of how much Adrian's plan bugs me and, even more, how they all just go along with it. Now, I'm going to reiterate that the book version literally makes me want to cry. He sounds like a fucking lunatic and the plan is so fucking insane I just can't... And why the heck are there all the sudden psychics in the world? Where did that come from? And, from what I can see is that Moore is saying that Adrian's a huge fuckwit who's gone over to the Death Ship on quest doomed to fail from the start (if "Tales of the Black Freighter" is a metaphor for Veidt) so what's with everyone going all, 'oh, it was awful, but Veidt totally saved the world!" (that was to be read in a high, Squeaky Fromme-from Assassins OBC album-type voice)
As for the movie (and the book):
Clearly, Adrian managed to stop nuclear holocaust. I will totally give him that. Could it have happened another way? Perhaps. But the world's "smartest man" chose to go the route he did. Fine.
But here's the thing: the way Adrian talks about it, he makes it seem like the very nature of humanity is going to change because of this. He links every evil in mankind - homelessness, lack of funds to care for the eldery, poverty, debt, etc. - to the fact nations push all their money in to war and weapons. Get rid of that, people'll be able to focus on one another, be kind, etc. etc.
But what works on a large scale (nations calling a truce, making treaties) doesn't work on small scales. Look at Sally her the last scene: pissed and frustrated that people have come "begging" and that nothing's "sacred. It never ends, never." And she's right. Murderers will still murder, pedophiles will still defile, rapists will still rape, and those who can screw someone weaker than themselves over will. Maybe not all at once, but this "utopia" ain't.
Also, if the world's leaders think that we're under eminent threat of an alien invasion, what do you think they're going to do? That's right, start researching, etc. to find ways to defend themselves.
This is one reason I think it was such a good idea to make Manhattan the threat. He's God: they think he's watching, and he's already shown what he'll do if the world gets that close to war again. He'll spank them and hard (which is what Dan says in his last scene in the movie.)
As for Adrian not being punished: I still call bullshit. In the book, he says that they can't risk an investigation because it might upset the peace. A) Bullshit. Millions die, and Manhattan can't fake Adrian's death along with all of them? B) In the movie, they can say that Adrian was killed because he was creating a weapon or trying to match Manhattan (God's) powers, so the villain of the piece decided to off him. Easy peasey.
Also, Dan, Adrian is not a pacifist. A pacifist doesn't go out and beat up bad guys. He might idealize pacification (?), but he ain't no pacifist.
And, on to the notes:
If the Comedian didn't want anything to do with the Watchmen (as called in movie) why did he stick around to get his picture taken? And when did that picture get taken? Was it for Laurie? (Also, was there a picture of them in the book? I can't remember).
At the beginning, the Comedian is watching TV. He flips around, then comes across something that looks like really fluffy porn. It's not, however; it's a commercial for Nostalgia. Why is he so happy about it? He grins and leans back and looks like he just found the best show ever.
Why does the Comedian call Night Owl "Dan" during the riot? I was under the impression that Dan didn't know who the Comedian really was until Rorschach told him; why was he revealing his secret identity to everyone? And why shout it out in the middle of a fucking riot? And why did none of the second wave seem to know Edward Blake = Comedian? (Well, maybe Manhattan, and I can't remember about Veidt; but Rorschach didn't know until he found the picture, and Dan didn't until Rorschach told him).
I think my dad had Dan's glasses back in the eighties.
At the funeral, when Manhattan arrives, Rorschach is standing right next to Dan and Adrian. Really, really close. Turned toward them and looking at them (Dan). In fact, every scene where Dan walks passed "Walter", Rorschach is staring him down, causing Dan to turn and look. Obviously, this is totally slashy. And Rorschach is silently pleading with Dan to see him for who he truly is.
Also, Moloch and the Comedian totally did it.
In the book, the Comedian flew over the island, happened to see it, and decided to investigate. In the movie, Nixon had him spying on Adrian and Manhattan. I still wonder how he uncovered so much.
Why would anyone proposition a wanted felon in a mask who smells, even a desperate prostitute?
There's a hidden Mickey in the movie: the lock on the cemetery that Rorschach opens.
Laurie: "Your finger's like licking a battery." ... whatever turns you on, dear.
Manhattan devices is called S.Q.U.I.D. Didn't quite see what it stood for, but I saw that. Also, I still think it was Adrian's idea to send two of Manhattan in to play with Laurie. And, assuming that Adrian is gay, do you think he just loves working with Manhattan? :)
I had my eyes mostly covered, but was Laurie killing people during the attack on her and Dan in the scary dark alley they randomly decided to walk down? 'Cause, I thought that was Rorschach's gig, and the rest of them just kind of pounded thugs into submission. I know some were alive at the end, but I thought I saw her break someone's neck and then stab another through the neck.
I think someone else posted this link way back, but Dr. Manhattan real life counterpart. Sad.
Janey Slater is beautiful, but just a tad too thin. Apparently, she was on Smallville the other night or something.
In the book, cars ran on battery power because Dr. Manhattan was able to mass produce the polyethylene batteries. In the movie, they chose to go with an "oil crisis." Wonder why.
I like that in the book, Ozy turned down the idea to make Nite Owl and Rorschach dolls, but in the movie, he has a complete set of vanity-figures in his office.
Sitting in lotus position is not a good look for a floating naked man.
Adrian's assassin is the worst shot. I love what a fucking bastard he is, ducking behind the people who were annoying him (and who might not be in New York when Adrian set up us the bomb) so they got shot. But then he's all, "Give me a name!" while covering the fucking dude's mouth. Which the security guard could see. Good thing he died a few days later.
I think I had Laurie's sunglasses in the early 90s.
In the book, Rorschach is 45. In the movie, they say he's 35. Jackie Earle Haley is 47. Why the age change?
I like the shrink in the movie much better than in the book. Dude in the book was a moron, stupid, gullible, and just plain bad. This guy at least seems fairly competent. Doesn't believe the "butterfly" and "pretty flowers" bull and doesn't get teary eyed when Rorschach says he doesn't like him.
Patrick Wilson is fifty million kinds of awesome. From beginning to end. And he gets 10 gold stars for that first sex scene. He was brilliant.
I am still sooooooo sad he doesn't have the goggles on when he's standing naked in the Owl Cave.
Do you think Rorschach is as smart as Adrian?
I like the song "Hallelujah". I love Jeff Buckley's version to death. I like Leonard Cohen's, just not the beginning. I don't know if he did it purposefully or not, but he sounds like he's over doing it, like a parody.
This is the longest sex scene in the history of the world. Also, Laurie keeps her stupid-ass boots on. Kinky. Like licking a battery.
Re the riot: Pay attention Smallville directors. Notice the lack of cons TPing the place (throwing it is okay; slumber party TP-ings is not) and the complete lack of pillow fights. See that? That's how to do a prison riot.
Dr. Manhattan has a stupid butt.
So, Manhattan tells Laurie that when she left him, he left earth. This is not exactly true. She left him, he went to his TV interview. Then, he was bombed with the idea that he had given cancer to those he loved (and fought against). Then he left earth.
You know, for the smartest man on earth, Adrian's... kind of obvious. Obsession with Egypt. Pharaohs, pyramids, Egypt stuff all over. Names his dummy corporation (or whatever) Pyramid Industries. Keeps a dics with a pyramid in with all his other stuff. Makes the password the Egyptian name of his superhero name. Dude.
I missed his "boys" folder. This makes me sad.
When he's in Karnac, and he's using his German accent, he sounds kind of drunk. Jeremy Irons did, too, in Die Hard with a Vengeance. Wonder why that is.
You know, Rorschach's journal only says that Veidt killed the Comedian, chased Manhattan off (if that, it kinda didn't) and Rorschah's framing. He does say that Veidt's behind the conspiracy, whatever that is, but, really, who is going to believe that he came up with that stupid squid or the whole Manhattan thing?
Well. They might figure out the whole Manhattan thing.
Rorschach's last journal entry is beautiful. I wish they could have read the whole thing in the film. It's just lovely.
The way it's done in the movie, even with Manhattan saying that Sally "loved a man she had every reason to hate", I don't think Sally loved or even liked the Comedian. It seems more like it was a mistake, drunken or not. Like something had happened (maybe she was frustrated with covering for Hooded Justice and Captain Metropolis) and sort of turned to someone who was there. But the way she reacted to him when he met Laurie didn't make me think she ever had fond feelings for him.
In the book... I don't know.
I love that you can see Adrian triggering the device as Rorschach and Dan are walking up to Karnack.
You know, it really bugs me that Adrian keeps calling Rorschach as sociopath. Apparently it's now called antisocial personality disorder. According to MayoClinic, a sociopath is:
* Disregard for right and wrong
* Persistent lying or deceit
* Using charm or wit to manipulate others
* Recurring difficulties with the law
* Repeatedly violating the rights of others
* Child abuse or neglect
* Intimidation of others
* Aggressive or violent behavior
* Lack of remorse about harming others
* Impulsive behavior
* Agitation
* Poor or abusive relationships
* Irresponsible work behavior
That's so not Rorschach. The Comedian, yes. Rorschach, no. Rorschach's probably a paranoid schizophrenic or just a "regular" schizophrenic. Symptoms: # Neglect of personal hygiene, Lack of emotions, Angry outbursts, etc. (Although definitely not clumsy movements). So. He needs to stop calling Rorschach that.
It seems like the Manhattan bombs are not all at once, but progressive. New York was the last hit.
I kind of want Bubastis to put herself back together and come fuck Adrian's shit up.
And, that's all.
Ever notice that the more you get into something, the way you refer to the characters change? I'm 45 pages into my "Watchman" fic, and I've switched from Veidt to Adrian (or Ozy) 'cause that's what I've been writing.
Off to clean the litter box.